tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3401106149239386272.comments2023-07-05T07:57:15.132-07:00AQALBlogMarty Kellerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11592136716581562644noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3401106149239386272.post-11162861836062477462021-03-12T06:36:55.138-08:002021-03-12T06:36:55.138-08:00I haven't dove too deeply into integral theory...I haven't dove too deeply into integral theory, but from what I know of it, and from my much deeper interest in American history, I completely agree with what you say about the historical trajectory and its implications. It is very rare to find someone else who picks up on this--the history of America's development, and how it differs from Europe's, and the way this relates to ideology, has been totally misunderstood. I agree it is the main flaw in Wilbert's analysis. I think the argument that "healthy orange," rather than "healthy green," is the place to find stability, is very persuasive. Really enjoyed reading your work! Brilliant analysis. K.E.https://www.blogger.com/profile/11945636342700208626noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3401106149239386272.post-58196254321766472572021-01-15T06:30:05.536-08:002021-01-15T06:30:05.536-08:00Fantastic post and I'm so glad I found this an...Fantastic post and I'm so glad I found this and your web site. My main exposure to integral to date has been from the Boulder crowd, and to be honest I was about to give up on it entirely, what with their constant uncritical admiration of Obama and placing him in 2nd tier, which I admittedly cannot wrap my mind around and was beginning to think I'm either missing something big, or, this model of viewing the world isn't my cup of tea. For me, this post, and the past several, gives a much needed counterbalance to the intellectually sloppy thinking coming from many in the integral community, and their disdain/sneering/smearing of orange ("oh those darn traditionalists" as they clutch their pearls while reading the NY Times).<br /><br />My only critique is I wish you would write more often!KZPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17492414337749952126noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3401106149239386272.post-15463169580119440942017-07-09T07:11:12.920-07:002017-07-09T07:11:12.920-07:00Great post. It is very true, people must learn how...Great post. It is very true, people must learn how to get knowledge from the great post<br /><a href="http://www.meezan.tv" rel="nofollow">Javed Ahmad Ghamidi</a>Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17438285973127846161noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3401106149239386272.post-77353743303598105302017-02-08T14:47:00.362-08:002017-02-08T14:47:00.362-08:00I had stepped away from integral -- likely due to ...I had stepped away from integral -- likely due to a case of Boulderitis -- for several years but I connected with this post. (I just started to read "Trump and a Post-Truth World" this morning when some serendipitous surfing landed me here.) The incompletion of orange development rings true to me and not in a green way. :) I have requested two of the books mentioned in the post from one of the local universities... I'll bookmark the site...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3401106149239386272.post-83534993404695653912015-12-09T10:04:22.249-08:002015-12-09T10:04:22.249-08:00Thanks for the comments, and I submit myself to yo...Thanks for the comments, and I submit myself to your Gravesian discipline. However, the point of the essay is to lay out how I perceive "integral," whether Graves had a system or not, and regardless of any errors in describing it. You actually illustrate my point that there is much confusion among the integralites about what we might effectively mean by "integral." <br /><br />Thus perhaps you notice that I now eschew using the word in any context other than in the cognitive line of development, and seek to use the term "transpersonal" to describe all realms in which identity transcends "I = my personal bodymind." Nowhere in that realm does the individual disappear; rather that identity as distinct becomes the object of awareness rather than the subject. Even the Christ knew himself as an individual but certainly did not identify as such; "the Father and I are one" is a pretty explicit transpersonal statement.<br /><br />As a side note, I get the SD notion that in development the Spiral swings from individual to collective expressions of the memes; I just don't find that all that important. Perhaps it is in the practical matter of dealing humans with one another, but given the amazingly chaotic expression that Spirit is currently manifesting, I'm happy just to distinguish "me" awareness from "us" awareness.<br /><br />And when are we having the Scotch/cognac?Marty Kellerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11592136716581562644noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3401106149239386272.post-46548117115336297272015-12-08T13:17:11.841-08:002015-12-08T13:17:11.841-08:00Dear Marty, Geesh, where do I start in contending...Dear Marty, Geesh, where do I start in contending against your errors? I'll take the easy path and nail the two easiest ones: 1) Graves did not provide us with one more line of development, the values line. That is a Wilber invention. Graves provided us with levels of existence and these are much more inclusive than Wilber's reduction of them leaves us with. Yes, you will see "values" used by Beck, and sometimes even by Graves, but read Graves closer and you will see he usually calls them "levels of existence" and very intentionally has included all that the existentialists and phenomenologists of his time were attending to. 2) Yellow is not a WE orientation. It is fair to claim that Yellow is Transpersonal, but that doesn't take one directly to "we". It takes one to an experience of BEING that is not limited by personal identity of the earlier, ego type. It is much more illustrative of the Yellow phenom to call this new level "non-local self". Even if everyone claiming Yellow were telling the truth, there is someone still there claiming Yellow. You can't objectify this Yellow Self, but surely whoever we assert is at Yellow, is still a very definable, individual. It is understandable that one would take the jump from "Not-I" to "we", but the obvious error there is that "we" is just a collective person, and not beyond identity at all. You are on to something though, and Turquoise is where your attribution of "we" as an existential experience belongs. I suggest you read Never Ending Quest closely, and note that the transcribed reports of Yellow thinkers do not read like they are "we" or transpersonal. You've made a heroes effort at extending Graves and will leave us with errors that should move this inquiry forward nicely. Thank you. <br />Tom C.https://www.blogger.com/profile/01551129542646481162noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3401106149239386272.post-9432231519397294612015-04-28T10:55:59.358-07:002015-04-28T10:55:59.358-07:00Tom C.,
Next time I'm in Madison or you'r...Tom C.,<br /><br />Next time I'm in Madison or you're in Sacramento!Marty Kellerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11592136716581562644noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3401106149239386272.post-82343181361985993022015-04-28T10:41:50.818-07:002015-04-28T10:41:50.818-07:00Wow! An impressively well studied critique. Can...Wow! An impressively well studied critique. Can we have coffee soon?Tom C.https://www.blogger.com/profile/01551129542646481162noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3401106149239386272.post-65849123394647703642014-10-30T16:29:34.908-07:002014-10-30T16:29:34.908-07:00Great article, thanks for posting! I appreciate yo...Great article, thanks for posting! I appreciate your observations of healthy non-Boomeritis exit green and its interconnections to northern Europe and its socialism. I look forward to reading more of your writings.chrisromainhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00961185652035285009noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3401106149239386272.post-37995880061090594342014-08-03T12:30:45.200-07:002014-08-03T12:30:45.200-07:00Tony,
Alas, it is not "the first cry of a n... <br />Tony, <br /><br />Alas, it is <i>not</i> "the first cry of a new language" but a very ancient way of crying for love. The "clamor for action" is nothing but amber fear of losing control and demanding reassurance. The advanced spiritual practitioner is comfortable with non-action, having glimpsed the deeper ways of the Kosmos. I agree with your insight about green as the "first egotistic realm to see from a world perspective"; this echoes Wilber's insight that red narcissism's lurking in green results in Boomeritis, of which Mr. Obama is such a sterling example. I think it useful, however, to distinguish between authentic green and its Boomeritis variant.Marty Kellerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11592136716581562644noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3401106149239386272.post-17550468510903788262014-08-03T12:26:00.236-07:002014-08-03T12:26:00.236-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Marty Kellerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11592136716581562644noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3401106149239386272.post-83834092482166863322014-06-28T02:31:33.011-07:002014-06-28T02:31:33.011-07:00My take on whether man-made global warming is as l...My take on whether man-made global warming is as large a concern as it is made out to be, without any resort to looking at the science or the facts, is to look at this emergence of the Green Meme in its infancy and consider:<br /><br />what else would it speak of, being the first egoistic realm to see from a world perspective, but along the lines of I can see the problem, you have caused it but I (We) know the solution. We will help you, we will legislate you, for the benefit of all of us.<br /><br /><br />In other words even if the science turned out to lean towards an immediate concern, this clamor for action is in my opinion nothing but the first cry of a new language.Alive With Tonyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04158763334608720439noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3401106149239386272.post-34180083866734247472014-06-01T12:40:13.316-07:002014-06-01T12:40:13.316-07:00Wish I'd had something like that when I gradua...Wish I'd had something like that when I graduated from high school 45 years ago?Marty Kellerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11592136716581562644noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3401106149239386272.post-68974547371643113312013-10-05T18:00:39.301-07:002013-10-05T18:00:39.301-07:00Hi Marty. I had what I think to be an integral ide...Hi Marty. I had what I think to be an integral idea but I don't know as I am new to this community so can't be sure that I am fully understanding things just yet! My thoughts came from sheer frustration of having completely useless and pointless material gifts given to my daughter (I am aware that sounds so ungrateful and I am not) however the amount of toys I have to clear out to make room for new ones that she rarely again plays with. I thought how this must happen globally and was such a waste of opportunity, finances, space, wrapping paper, energy to produce etc etc.<br /><br />My idea was kind of like a new shares investment futures planning for our youth. A technology software product assigned to each child at birth where all family and friends become stakeholders and instead of buying pointless gifts they invest money in a scheme which buys the child on the coming of age a once in a lifetime trip somewhere fascinating like wonders of the world, religious pilgrimages, space flights by then perhaps! But the plan is to keep investing over birthdays, Christmas' and easter/other holidays or celebrations if they wish so it becomes a interactive planning and educational program which is giving them something to aspire to, plan for, life skills, investment in nature/historical landmarks to preserve and increase ethical and sensitive tourism which is well co-ordinated globally. Along the way they would have to research the area gaining knowledge thus increasing education and parental and family communications. Also, they would need to do some training for things like camping, wildlife handling, archeological digs or whatever is specialist to the specific lifetime opportunity.<br /><br />I thought it would bring good investment to countries, governments and families as well as giving future and planning and reducing pointless waste? Hopefully redistributing wealth around to some less advantaged areas too and helping rediscover some new and truly beautiful places whilst capturing global interest in planet and wildlife to preserve?<br /><br />I know its a big project but just wondered if you thought it has any interesting qualities. I know kids will want presents too but the majority are pointless add ons and wasteful.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com